Question:
– First the powder, then the wadding! Tamp, tamp, tamp! Sorry Derace, I feel like a moron for asking this… (but)… a) You call the Paxton "tame". What exactly do you mean and which superchargers would give better numbers on my ‘87 Bronco with a 302?
Very appropriate questions. I’m just trying to convey the fact that you shouldn’t expect miracles, i.e. don’t expect twice the horsepower. When I say that I get 6 pounds of boost maximum( 40% increase), that really means that at full throttle acceleration, just before the tranny shifts at around 4200 rpm, the supercharger is giving 6 pounds of boost. Of course during the rest of the time, the boost is proportionately less and if you aren’t full throttle, you are getting much less boost than maximum. And that gives only a modest increase in horsepower. Most of the time you are getting much less than maximum, so don’t expect it to squeal the tires, although mine will sometimes chirp second and third! (I’ve got a shift kit too.) On smaller displacement engines, for a given supercharger, you will get proportionately more boost. Your 302, being 14% smaller in displacement than my 351W, should give you 14% more boost than I get with the same supercharger setup. A nice increase for sure and not very likely to require engine mods. From what I’ve read, much beyond 5 pounds of boost, you have to start considering beefing up the engine and drive train. Your 302 is also a pretty stout engine and the drive train retains its robust history so I don’t think that would be a problem. Paxton has some killer streetable stuff in the Novi line now. You could get way more boost with this model than my SN93. Number such as 12 to 25 pounds of boost for small block engines(I think). Now you’re talkin’ big time increase!!!! Be careful. Vortec also makes several sizes of chargers. Ken Belle uses Whipple chargers(very good at lower rpm’s I’ve heard). b) Why and what do you have to upgrade when you add a supercharger?
I changed nothing on the vehicle. The Paxton kit includes a fuel pressure bypass device that raises the fuel rail pressure to the pump maximum whenever there is more than 2 pounds of boost. This insures that the injectors can deliver the needed gas. I did get two Paxton upgrades to my kit: (1) the high output impeller($350 extra) and (2) the supercharger lubrication/drive fluid radiator cooler kit($400). I also installed a MSD boost timing master ignition module($400) to prevent detonation. c) So are you saying you’re pleased with the Paxton at sea level?
Basically, I am very pleased with the kit at all altitudes. I just don’t want anyone to get the impression that miracles occur. The Paxton does exactly what I should have expected it to do. If I am disappointed, it would be because I had unrealistic expectations. later, Derace
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — First the powder, then the wadding! Tamp, tamp, tamp! Sorry Derace, I feel like a moron for asking this… (but)… a) You call the Paxton "tame". What exactly do you mean and which superchargers would give better numbers on my ‘87 Bronco with a 302? Very appropriate questions. I’m just trying to convey the fact that you shouldn’t expect miracles, i.e. don’t expect twice the horsepower. When I say that I get 6 pounds of boost maximum( 40% increase), that really means that at full throttle acceleration, just before the tranny shifts at around 4200 rpm, the supercharger is giving 6 pounds of boost. Of course during the rest of the time, the boost is proportionately less and if you aren’t full throttle, you are getting much less boost than maximum. And that gives only a modest increase in horsepower. Most of the time you are getting much less than maximum, so don’t expect it to squeal the tires, although mine will sometimes chirp second and third! (I’ve got a shift kit too.) On smaller displacement engines, for a given supercharger, you will get proportionately more boost. Your 302, being 14% smaller in displacement than my 351W, should give you 14% more boost than I get with the same supercharger setup. A nice increase for sure and not very likely to require engine mods. From what I’ve read, much beyond 5 pounds of boost, you have to start considering beefing up the engine and drive train. Your 302 is also a pretty stout engine and the drive train retains its robust history so I don’t think that would be a problem. Paxton has some killer streetable stuff in the Novi line now. You could get way more boost with this model than my SN93. Number such as 12 to 25 pounds of boost for small block engines(I think). Now you’re talkin’ big time increase!!!! Be careful. Vortec also makes several sizes of chargers. Ken Belle uses Whipple chargers(very good at lower rpm’s I’ve heard). b) Why and what do you have to upgrade when you add a supercharger? I changed nothing on the vehicle. The Paxton kit includes a fuel pressure bypass device that raises the fuel rail pressure to the pump maximum whenever there is more than 2 pounds of boost. This insures that the injectors can deliver the needed gas. I did get two Paxton upgrades to my kit: (1) the high output impeller($350 extra) and (2) the supercharger lubrication/drive fluid radiator cooler kit($400). I also installed a MSD boost timing master ignition module($400) to prevent detonation. c) So are you saying you’re pleased with the Paxton at sea level? Basically, I am very pleased with the kit at all altitudes. I just don’t want anyone to get the impression that miracles occur. The Paxton does exactly what I should have expected it to do. If I am disappointed, it would be because I had unrealistic expectations. later, Derace
Thanks very much, Derace! Makes a lot more sense to me now… one last question if I may… did you install it yourself? If so, how long did it take you? If not, what were your labor charges? (well, I THOUGHT it was only going to be one more question) {:^) -chris ~My rig’s fun is never done~ To reply stop "laughing" at me! {;^) http://www.selectrec.com
Response:
I installed it myself(I’ve been doing all my own shade tree mechanic work for many years). It took about 8 leisurely hours. It is not very difficult to install. Anyone who does minor repairs on their own vehicle will have no difficulty doing the installation. later, Derace – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks very much, Derace! Makes a lot more sense to me now… one last question if I may… did you install it yourself? If so, how long did it take you? If not, what were your labor charges? (well, I THOUGHT it was only going to be one more question) {:^) -chris ~My rig’s fun is never done~ To reply stop "laughing" at me! {;^) http://www.selectrec.com
Response:
Well, after having the Paxton supercharger on my ‘94 Bronco for almost <EXCELLENT STUFF SNIPPED
Excellent post, Derace! Did you have to do any mods to the fuel injection after installation? Any effect on fuel mileage in normal driving? Any durabiliy worries after 3 years? 4 wheel drive van page: http://www.glinx.com/users/sbest Tire chains, camping gear, tools,82 Bronco and some shooting stuff too.
Response:
– First the powder, then the wadding! Tamp, tamp, tamp! Well, after having the Paxton supercharger on my ‘94 Bronco for almost <EXCELLENT STUFF SNIPPED Excellent post, Derace! Did you have to do any mods to the fuel injection after installation?
No mods, but I am wondering if larger injectors and an upgrade fuel pump would be beneficial. Any effect on fuel mileage in normal driving?
If you tread lightly on the gas pedal, there is no change; however, the engine is so much more fun and responsive, it is difficult not using that extra horsepower and consequently you can degrade your fuel mileage. I average about 12 mpg city, and 15 highway if I’m not going too fast. At altitude this past trip I averaged 16.5 mpg! Wow, when the twisting roads keep you from going over 45 mph and there isn’t enough oxygen to generate much horsepower you get really great gas mileage!!!! Any durabiliy worries after 3 years?
A good question. My thoughts are that the 351W is a good old design that originally put out more horsepower in some configurations than my supercharged version does, so I think that as long as I’m not racing from stop light to stop light with the pedal to the metal, I should get reasonable life expectancy. Of course the more horsepower you ask from an engine, the shorter its life span, but I think the 351W can handle it pretty well. I’ve got 80K miles on it and must say I’ve had very little trouble with the truck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 4 wheel drive van page: http://www.glinx.com/users/sbest Tire chains, camping gear, tools,82 Bronco and some shooting stuff too.
Response:
Well, after having the Paxton supercharger on my ‘94 Bronco for almost three years here in Houston, I finally made it back to the Durango/Silverton/Ouray area over Labor Day. In a previous non-supercharged visit on that long 17% grade north of Durango, it was difficult to maintain speed without resorting to second gear; however, with the supercharger, I had no problem cruising up at 70 mph in third gear (overdrive turned off of course). On other sections of the San Juan Skyway, passing was a little easier since I was getting about 1 to 2 pounds of boost(maximum, as well as I could tell from glancing at the gauge plus I’m trying to keep from running off the road!) even at altitudes around 10 000 feet.(No, I didn’t really need any extra horsepower between Silverton and Ouray. Sheesh! I’m glad I wasn’t driving from Ouray to Silverton! Yikes! White knuckles!) The supercharger provides no significant advantage in my type off highway travel. I had no trouble going up Cinnamon Pass last visit. Engine rpm’s are too low for the Paxton to develop any boost and I don’t do any wheelin’ that requires anything other than low and slow. However, in lowrange and 1st gear there would be some boost available at reasonable ground speeds although I didn’t get a chance to check this out on this trip. All in all, a noticeable increase in useable horsepower for highway cruising although by no means a radical transformation at altitude. A 351W is a little too large a displacement to get radical boost numbers with the tame SN93 Paxton(even with high output impeller, Paxta-trac boost fluid and radiator cooler). Normal caution in estimating passing distance was still required. I’m still wondering if turbochargers are more effective for high altitude highway cruising; but the easy self-installation(8 hours) and price ($3500, ‘charger plus upgrades and the MSD)of the Paxton wins hands down compared to what must be a nightmare to retrofit a turbo! Here in Houston I get a maximum of 6 pounds of boost; far more than 93 octane can handle without leaving a couple degrees/pound boost retard dialed in on the MSD boost timing master. Quite a nice increase in performance at sea level(:-) later, Derace — First the powder, then the wadding! Tamp, tamp, tamp!
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after having the Paxton supercharger on my ‘94 Bronco for almost three years here in Houston, I finally made it back to the Durango/Silverton/Ouray area over Labor Day. In a previous non-supercharged visit on that long 17% grade north of Durango, it was difficult to maintain speed without resorting to second gear; however, with the supercharger, I had no problem cruising up at 70 mph in third gear (overdrive turned off of course). On other sections of the San Juan Skyway, passing was a little easier since I was getting about 1 to 2 pounds of boost(maximum, as well as I could tell from glancing at the gauge plus I’m trying to keep from running off the road!) even at altitudes around 10 000 feet.(No, I didn’t really need any extra horsepower between Silverton and Ouray. Sheesh! I’m glad I wasn’t driving from Ouray to Silverton! Yikes! White knuckles!) The supercharger provides no significant advantage in my type off highway travel. I had no trouble going up Cinnamon Pass last visit. Engine rpm’s are too low for the Paxton to develop any boost and I don’t do any wheelin’ that requires anything other than low and slow. However, in lowrange and 1st gear there would be some boost available at reasonable ground speeds although I didn’t get a chance to check this out on this trip. All in all, a noticeable increase in useable horsepower for highway cruising although by no means a radical transformation at altitude. A 351W is a little too large a displacement to get radical boost numbers with the tame SN93 Paxton(even with high output impeller, Paxta-trac boost fluid and radiator cooler). Normal caution in estimating passing distance was still required. I’m still wondering if turbochargers are more effective for high altitude highway cruising; but the easy self-installation(8 hours) and price ($3500, ‘charger plus upgrades and the MSD)of the Paxton wins hands down compared to what must be a nightmare to retrofit a turbo! Here in Houston I get a maximum of 6 pounds of boost; far more than 93 octane can handle without leaving a couple degrees/pound boost retard dialed in on the MSD boost timing master. Quite a nice increase in performance at sea level(:-) later, Derace — First the powder, then the wadding! Tamp, tamp, tamp!
Sorry Derace, I feel like a moron for asking this… (but)… a) You call the Paxton "tame". What exactly do you mean and which superchargers would give better numbers on my ‘87 Bronco with a 302? b) Why and what do you have to upgrade when you add a supercharger? c) So are you saying you’re pleased with the Paxton at sea level? Thanks in advance, {:^) -chris ~My rig’s fun is never done~ To reply stop "laughing" at me! {;^) http://www.selectrec.com
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