Question:

Leafing through rec.running, I read TomR Wheeler’s message of 29 Oct 2004: If life gives you lemons make lemon aide

I like it. Phil M. — "What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short, South African coach.

Response:

Leafing through rec.running, I read TomR Wheeler’s message of 29 Oct 2004: If life gives you lemons make lemon aide I like it. Phil M.

~~~~~~ Me too! Mary

Response:

<< A dog howls like a screaming banshee. O, he misses me! _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A

Response:

O, he misses me!

Apparently not much, he’s humping my leg as I type.

Response:

<< O, he misses me! Apparently not much, he’s humping my leg as I type.   …he’s forgiven… _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A

Response:

<< Mary   Have we met? _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A

Response:

Gotta shower. Gotta Go play! Today’s today… Holloween. 2days! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello mole joes marathons O B one and weasel stairways. A day of outside weight training and no needle point gym is .How’s douse say. A.B.  O-see K-sa.  mesa thinks.   Mesa  Likes it outside to B…..sa….! as in Hell Michigan camping last week end……. a hike in and hike out! I came of a tail I have not seen since I hurt my leg in a failed ultra event here. I said this trail well take us to hell Michigan. we took other to camp in. hiking on the half trail now.  made camp and sleep next day now……. after wood search and drag back I came to 2 women and there pit bulls. who e all had no map an told of trail and being lost they B.         I said:     to hell and to camp and to  wren we park, to park they day hike…… and they wanted to go?  they said they well take the way they B. ( I still got lighten up A tortoises I be) Nerd beanie weanie……Too heavy!  dumpster full of goodies. maybe try my new raincoat today or next 5 rain days….. 2,055 miles for 2004 so far…… not one who was shot. when latter looking at state land map.  I see the distance to hell and no this look of, Our you nuts…..O  B one. and with hurt leg some.  I think to speculate self. of the then run or jog or l s d  self. Neuron distance to hell was 1 of many trails to my leg broke…  the breath seems to last for ever and the look in the brain space  neurones in memory seems peacefully.  I miss it. maybe hike l.s.d. with less weight on back? butt How?  big Question mesa think…….and still not I like to bike ride and lift weight now. be in the stars. and love big g and jesus as my save your.   be in nature and ridding for 10 cent cans  all seasons. because still even if I do send resumes  I get no replies other then send money foe the v.i.p lists.   i am feed happy and evan not as strong as before.  I am trying. I live in nature to eat.  jesus feeds me when everyone else won’t……. for work. butt ride too live….If life gives you lemons make lemon aide:) peace  be in trails or dirt road saying (How D Long D) to the s.u.v  too many here  yes…. s.u.v. people work and sell reality or worker here. I think…. and say I wish I was in the country,… The 300 feet measure tape strape too my back pack is too say.   interesting. since Bush was here yesterday……. Oh so many subs and schools being built…… and me on a ie. bike with a yellow tape strape to my back pack…Who was it? so many looks from s.u.v. people. and smiles from all Lol   Not me……time to ride……latter 2,054 mile for 2004 so far. and $ 1,850.00 on a 1099 form. not bad for a painter of near 30 years…….lol already been audited. because I know what 30 year of over the u.s.a….lol  10 cent cans to eat and do laundry……trash is good. dumpster. one might get shot…….fines big time…….

Speeders beware of merciless molemen. Hybrid foxes clear the fences with great ease. Mutant willows sob like dieing geese. A dog howls like a screaming banshee. The great ape is grape. Lord Putin raises his children with great care. Skillful artists render finely colored murals to adorn the walls of the chapel. After eating burritos the night before, embarassing sounds were heard from within the anals of history…also in church. Bi-waxing prevents arthritis. Omosis is bad for squirrels.  Dumpster divers arrested, news at 11. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A

Response:

<< O, he misses me! Apparently not much, he’s humping my leg as I type. …he’s forgiven…

That’s easy for you to do, I’m the one who has to go put my pants in the wash…

Response:

<big Question mesa think…….and still not No nice dry mesquite found on an island? Ah so, So illogical. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello mole joes marathons O B one and weasel stairways. A day of outside weight training and no needle point gym is .How’s douse say. A.B.  O-see K-sa.  mesa thinks.   Mesa  Likes it outside to B…..sa….! as in Hell Michigan camping last week end……. a hike in and hike out! I came of a tail I have not seen since I hurt my leg in a failed ultra event here. I said this trail well take us to hell Michigan. we took other to camp in. hiking on the half trail now.  made camp and sleep next day now……. after wood search and drag back I came to 2 women and there pit bulls. who e all had no map an told of trail and being lost they B.         I said:     to hell and to camp and to  wren we park, to park they day hike…… and they wanted to go?  they said they well take the way they B. ( I still got lighten up A tortoises I be) Nerd beanie weanie……Too heavy!  dumpster full of goodies. maybe try my new raincoat today or next 5 rain days….. 2,055 miles for 2004 so far…… not one who was shot. when latter looking at state land map.  I see the distance to hell and no this look of, Our you nuts…..O  B one. and with hurt leg some.  I think to speculate self. of the then run or jog or l s d  self. Neuron distance to hell was 1 of many trails to my leg broke…  the breath seems to last for ever and the look in the brain space  neurones in memory seems peacefully.  I miss it. maybe hike l.s.d. with less weight on back? butt How?  big Question mesa think…….and still not I like to bike ride and lift weight now. be in the stars. and love big g and jesus as my save your.   be in nature and ridding for 10 cent cans  all seasons. because still even if I do send resumes  I get no replies other then send money foe the v.i.p lists.   i am feed happy and evan not as strong as before.  I am trying. I live in nature to eat.  jesus feeds me when everyone else won’t……. for work. butt ride too live….If life gives you lemons make lemon aide:) peace  be in trails or dirt road saying (How D Long D) to the s.u.v  too many here  yes…. s.u.v. people work and sell reality or worker here. I think…. and say I wish I was in the country,… The 300 feet measure tape strape too my back pack is too say.   interesting. since Bush was here yesterday……. Oh so many subs and schools being built…… and me on a ie. bike with a yellow tape strape to my back pack…Who was it? so many looks from s.u.v. people. and smiles from all Lol   Not me……time to ride……latter 2,054 mile for 2004 so far. and $ 1,850.00 on a 1099 form. not bad for a painter of near 30 years…….lol already been audited. because I know what 30 year of over the u.s.a….lol  10 cent cans to eat and do laundry……trash is good. dumpster. one might get shot…….fines big time…….

Speeders beware of merciless molemen. Hybrid foxes clear the fences with great ease. Mutant willows sob like dieing geese. A dog howls like a screaming banshee. The great ape is grape. Lord Putin raises his children with great care. Skillful artists render finely colored murals to adorn the walls of the chapel. After eating burritos the night before, embarassing sounds were heard from within the anals of history…also in church. Bi-waxing prevents arthritis. Omosis is bad for squirrels.  Dumpster divers arrested, news at 11.

Response:

Hello mole joes marathons O B one and weasel stairways. A day of outside weight training and no needle point gym is .How’s douse say. A.B.  O-see K-sa.  mesa thinks.   Mesa  Likes it outside to B…..sa….! as in Hell Michigan camping last week end……. a hike in and hike out! I came of a tail I have not seen since I hurt my leg in a failed ultra event here. I said this trail well take us to hell Michigan. we took other to camp in. hiking on the half trail now.  made camp and sleep next day now……. after wood search and drag back I came to 2 women and there pit bulls. who e all had no map an told of trail and being lost they B.         I said:     to hell and to camp and to  wren we park, to park they day hike…… and they wanted to go?  they said they well take the way they B. ( I still got lighten up A tortoises I be) Nerd beanie weanie……Too heavy!  dumpster full of goodies. maybe try my new raincoat today or next 5 rain days….. 2,055 miles for 2004 so far…… not one who was shot.  when latter looking at state land map.  I see the distance to hell and no this look of, Our you nuts…..O  B one. and with hurt leg some.  I think to speculate self. of the then run or jog or l s d  self. Neuron distance to hell was 1 of many trails to my leg broke…  the breath seems to last for ever and the look in the brain space  neurones in memory seems peacefully.  I miss it. maybe hike l.s.d. with less weight on back? butt How?  big Question mesa think…….and still not I like to bike ride and lift weight now. be in the stars. and love big g and jesus as my save your.   be in nature and ridding for 10 cent cans  all seasons. because still even if I do send resumes  I get no replies other then send money foe the v.i.p lists.   i am feed happy and evan not as strong as before.  I am trying. I live in nature to eat.  jesus feeds me when everyone else won’t……. for work. butt ride too live….If life gives you lemons make lemon aide:) peace  be in trails or dirt road saying (How D Long D) to the s.u.v  too many here  yes…. s.u.v. people work and sell reality or worker here. I think…. and say I wish I was in the country,… The 300 feet measure tape strape too my back pack is too say.   interesting. since Bush was here yesterday……. Oh so many subs and schools being built…… and me on a ie. bike with a yellow tape strape to my back pack…Who was it? so many looks from s.u.v. people. and smiles from all Lol   Not me……time to ride……latter 2,054 mile for 2004 so far. and $ 1,850.00 on a 1099 form. not bad for a painter of near 30 years…….lol already been audited. because I know what 30 year of over the u.s.a….lol  10 cent cans to eat and do laundry……trash is good. dumpster. one might get shot…….fines big time…….

Response:

Question:

Are the Maoists still avoiding bothering tourists at this time??? Have you heard of any instances of Maoists bothering tourists in the last few weeks??

I just returned from over there on Monday. They have been quite active around the country, but seem to be avoiding tourists for now. Even when they bother the tourists, it’s just for a little bit of money. There is never any violence directed towards them.

Response:

This is a question concern about security, Many tourists frequently ask same question. But Maoist has already announced that they don’t attack and they are avoiding tourist form their traget. So who want to travel Nepal and want to make trekking in Nepal can travel without any worry but some time tourist can feel uncomfort due to the strike. Yes, Moaist demands a little bit donetion (money) from the tourists but no attack to them.    Just Yesterday an English group has backed form round annapuran trekking which i had organized to them. according to them on the way they met maoist andthey doneted bit money to them when moaist asked some economic help. A tourist can walk here freely and can make their trip as they wish. So if you are also worried about it I have cleared you. if you want any help form Me here feel easy to write me.  Have a nice time. Sincerely CP Dhungana – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are the Maoist’s  continuing to avoid bothering tourists at this time?? Have you head of any reports where they have bothered tourists??

Response:

Are the Maoists still avoiding bothering tourists at this time??? Have you heard of any instances of Maoists bothering tourists in the last few weeks??

Response:

Are the Maoist’s  continuing to avoid bothering tourists at this time?? Have you head of any reports where they have bothered tourists??

Response:

is really fantastic to hear that you are traveling Nepal with your girl friend. I am sure your precious holiday will be meaningful and fantastic in Nepal due to it痴 splendid beauty. I would like to answer your questions: Sound looks really nice to travel to Chitwan National park along the Trishuli River. Trisuli river a only a river to closer to National park to go form Kathmandu. Alternatively, you can raft along the Seti River to National park form Pokhara but it takes almost 4 days. I suggest you raft in Trishuli and enjoy for 1 or 2 days and go to National park. Package program 2 night 3 days at National park will be sufficient. Package program  will be cheap. Great!! You have already got some basis mountain climbing experience fantastic!!! Actually you can make 8 to 10 days Annapuran base camp trekking. It takes more days to climb the mountain. And you have to go another area to climb mountain. You have to catch good guide with good knowledge and  experienced sherpa guides are perfect.  Every traveler has same worried about the matter of cost and safety. Actually our all guides are we-trained and responsible so you can feel easy and comfort in your whole trip with them. I suggest you not to catch guide or potter form the way because if they steal some things form you, you don稚 get place to complain so go to the reliable place to get good guide. In the matter of the cost let me details your program then I will let you know be sure it will be reasonable. Don稚 worry about the Maoist problem because sometime tourist can feel uneasy due to  the strike but they had already declared that they don稚 attack tourist that is good for the tourists. You should not worry about that. You can find guides in Pokhara but be careful while choosing. Or you can find good Sherpa guide in Kathmadu form the reliable place I think that would be good. suggest you not to make camping trekking because it cost much. It would be better staying in teahouse.  I f you have further inquiries please feel easy to write me. Thank you very much Regards CP Dhungana (Information Officer) Himalayan Glacier world treks (P.) Ltd. Phone# 00977-01-4229743 Thamel, Kathmandu Nepal Web: www.himalayanglacier.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend and I are travelling to Nepal at the end of November this year (04) for the first time, we have 3 weeks and plan to base ourselves in Pokhara.  We would like to include a few days white water rafting (grade 3+), a few days in one of the National Parks probably Royal Chitwan and finish with a trek of up to approximately 8 days and were hoping for some advice on the following questions: 1. We had thought of white water rafting along the Trisuli river to travel to Royal Chitwan National Park and therefore reduce time spent travelling but hear the river is very busy and not one of the best. Are there any good rivers that can be used to travel to or closer to one of the National Parks? Alternatively, are we better white water rafting in a different area? 2. We both have some basic mountain climbing experience and would like to take in a couple of the lower peaks is this possible from the main trekking routes and at the beginning of December? Will trekking guides be happy to do this? Are there any particularly suitable 8 day routes in the Annapurna region that could include this? Or should we be looking to trek in another area? 3. Considering cost and safety is it sensible for just two of us to travel with a trekking guide and porter or should we try and meet up with other travellers wanting to do a similar trip? 4. Is it easy to find reliable guides on arrival in Pokhara? 5. We both enjoy camping and have a robust mountain tent and multi liquid fuel stove, is it sensible / possible / safe to take this trekking or are we better staying in tea houses / lodges considering cost and the practicality of finding / cooking our own food? Many thanks for any suggestions. Ben and Lottie

Response:

My girlfriend and I are travelling to Nepal at the end of November this year (04) for the first time, we have 3 weeks and plan to base ourselves in Pokhara.  We would like to include a few days white water rafting (grade 3+), a few days in one of the National Parks probably Royal Chitwan and finish with a trek of up to approximately 8 days and were hoping for some advice on the following questions: 1. We had thought of white water rafting along the Trisuli river to travel to Royal Chitwan National Park and therefore reduce time spent travelling but hear the river is very busy and not one of the best. Are there any good rivers that can be used to travel to or closer to one of the National Parks? Alternatively, are we better white water rafting in a different area? 2. We both have some basic mountain climbing experience and would like to take in a couple of the lower peaks is this possible from the main trekking routes and at the beginning of December? Will trekking guides be happy to do this? Are there any particularly suitable 8 day routes in the Annapurna region that could include this? Or should we be looking to trek in another area? 3. Considering cost and safety is it sensible for just two of us to travel with a trekking guide and porter or should we try and meet up with other travellers wanting to do a similar trip? 4. Is it easy to find reliable guides on arrival in Pokhara? 5. We both enjoy camping and have a robust mountain tent and multi liquid fuel stove, is it sensible / possible / safe to take this trekking or are we better staying in tea houses / lodges considering cost and the practicality of finding / cooking our own food? Many thanks for any suggestions. Ben and Lottie

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About 6 years ago, Dennis and I were camping a little ways south of San Francisco.  We were in a heavily forested camp site.  We’d roasted our wieners in the campfire and consumed a large quantity of cheap red wine from a box, which was on the picnic table.  It was getting late out and it was pitch black outside.  The fire was dying down.  Suddenly, we heard sniffling right behind us!  The hair on the back of our necks stood up.  It was eerie. Dennis reached for the flashlight but the battery was dead.  There was rustling on the picnic table and heavy breathing.  It was so scary! Stumbling around in the dark, I tried to find the car so I could turn on the lights.  Dennis grabbed the axe and swiped it along the picnic table.  More sniffling and rustling from the bushes.  I finally made it to the car and turned on the lights. There’s Dennis, waving the axe, surrounded on 3 sides by about 8 raccoons. They had already eaten the rest of our wieners and marshmallows.  There was a wooden box with a latch where the rest of our food was.  One raccoon pulled out the stick in the latch (we didn’t have a lock) and opened the box.  They all came and ate our food, while Dennis was waving the axe at them.  They weren’t at all afraid, only backing off about 1 foot from the axe and then advancing again.  When all the food was gone, they tore apart our box of wine, poked a hole in the bag and drank all the wine.  Then they all took off.  Dennis and I were left with no breakfast and no more wine. Bastard raccoons!

Oh those dastardly ‘coons!! Reminds me of when Pam and family camped here overnight on their trip. It was getting dark as we were eating, and we were surrounded buy the little four footed bandits. As we were sitting at the picnic table one crawled through the window to check for anything edible in my truck. I had taken Sammy along. I always give her some Fancy Feast as a reward when we go on truck rides. I gave her half the can, and put the rest in a ziplock for LB to eat when we got home. Sometime, probably as we were getting ready to leave and carrying stuff over to the cars, or when we took pictures over in the parking lot, the bag was ripped open and the FF partially eaten. Oh well, LB is fluffy enough and probably didn’t need a treat anyway ;-) — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About 6 years ago, Dennis and I were camping a little ways south of San Francisco.  We were in a heavily forested camp site.  We’d roasted our wieners in the campfire and consumed a large quantity of cheap red wine from a box, which was on the picnic table.  It was getting late out and it was pitch black outside.  The fire was dying down.  Suddenly, we heard sniffling right behind us!  The hair on the back of our necks stood up.  It was eerie. Dennis reached for the flashlight but the battery was dead.  There was rustling on the picnic table and heavy breathing.  It was so scary! Stumbling around in the dark, I tried to find the car so I could turn on the lights.  Dennis grabbed the axe and swiped it along the picnic table.   More sniffling and rustling from the bushes.  I finally made it to the car and turned on the lights. There’s Dennis, waving the axe, surrounded on 3 sides by about 8 raccoons. They had already eaten the rest of our wieners and marshmallows.  There was a wooden box with a latch where the rest of our food was.  One raccoon pulled out the stick in the latch (we didn’t have a lock) and opened the box.  They all came and ate our food, while Dennis was waving the axe at them.  They weren’t at all afraid, only backing off about 1 foot from the axe and then advancing again.  When all the food was gone, they tore apart our box of wine, poked a hole in the bag and drank all the wine.  Then they all took off.  Dennis and I were left with no breakfast and no more wine. Bastard raccoons!

Revenge (although I saw it with a rather nice hand-raised raccoon) is giving one a sugar cube, and watching him wash it–then wonder where it went.

Response:

  About 6 years ago, Dennis and I were camping a little ways south of San   Francisco. We were in a heavily forested camp site. We’d roasted our   wieners in the campfire and consumed a large quantity of cheap red wine from   a box, which was on the picnic table. It was getting late out and it was   pitch black outside. The fire was dying down. Suddenly, we heard sniffling   right behind us! The hair on the back of our necks stood up. It was eerie.   Dennis reached for the flashlight but the battery was dead. There was   rustling on the picnic table and heavy breathing. It was so scary! I don’t think we have bears in this part of California. I’ve certainly never heard of anyone running into one in the Bay Area, which it sounds like was where you were. (Were you in Portola Valley state park, by any chance? It’s a nice, very woodsy area in the Santa Cruz hills.) Now, mountain lions are a possibility around here, especially in the hills. But they’ve been seen in suburban neighborhoods on quite a few occasions, too. After all, those areas used to be theirs! Raccoons, though, are everywhere. Your story is pretty funny, although at the time I’m sure it wasn’t. I love the image of Dennis swinging an axe like a wild man, while 8 unfazed raccoons go about their business eating your food. :) Joyce

Response:

yodeled: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground SEATTLE, Washington (Reuters) — A black bear was found passed out at a campground in Washington state recently after guzzling down three dozen cans of a local beer, a campground worker said on Wednesday. "We noticed a bear sleeping on the common lawn and wondered what was going on until we discovered that there were a lot of beer cans lying around," said Lisa Broxson, a worker at the Baker Lake Resort, 80 miles (129 km) northeast of Seattle. The hard-drinking bear, estimated to be about two years old, broke into campers’ coolers and, using his claws and teeth to open the cans, swilled down the suds. It turns out the bear was a bit of a beer sophisticate. He tried a mass-market Busch beer, but switched to Rainier Beer, a local ale, and stuck with it for his drinking binge. Wildlife agents chased the bear away, but it returned the next day, said Broxson. They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation. Probably relocated to Washington U. where he would fit right in! ;) Beg to disagree! Saint Bonaventure, in the "Southern Tier" of Western New York, was voted one of the top party schools in America. And a Jesuit college to boot!

Hey, the Jebbies rock!  ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground SEATTLE, Washington (Reuters) — A black bear was found passed out at a campground in Washington state recently after guzzling down three dozen cans of a local beer, a campground worker said on Wednesday. "We noticed a bear sleeping on the common lawn and wondered what was going on until we discovered that there were a lot of beer cans lying around," said Lisa Broxson, a worker at the Baker Lake Resort, 80 miles (129 km) northeast of Seattle. The hard-drinking bear, estimated to be about two years old, broke into campers’ coolers and, using his claws and teeth to open the cans, swilled down the suds. It turns out the bear was a bit of a beer sophisticate. He tried a mass-market Busch beer, but switched to Rainier Beer, a local ale, and stuck with it for his drinking binge. Wildlife agents chased the bear away, but it returned the next day, said Broxson. They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation. Probably relocated to Washington U. where he would fit right in! ;) IU – one of the top rated party schools in the US, to the dismay of Bloomington residents.

Albany made that list, too. ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

Response:

"And that’s when I first saw the bear.  He was a Kodiak-lookin’ fella, about 19 feet tall . . . He downed one of them things and looked like one of them bears in the circus sippin’ sasparilly in the moonlight. He downed another and another and another one, and . . . commenced to doin’ the bear dance." Heh.  Just couldn’t resist.  Jimmy Buffett, "God’s Own Drunk". Ginger-lyn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground SEATTLE, Washington (Reuters) — A black bear was found passed out at a campground in Washington state recently after guzzling down three dozen cans of a local beer, a campground worker said on Wednesday. "We noticed a bear sleeping on the common lawn and wondered what was going on until we discovered that there were a lot of beer cans lying around," said Lisa Broxson, a worker at the Baker Lake Resort, 80 miles (129 km) northeast of Seattle. The hard-drinking bear, estimated to be about two years old, broke into campers’ coolers and, using his claws and teeth to open the cans, swilled down the suds. It turns out the bear was a bit of a beer sophisticate. He tried a mass-market Busch beer, but switched to Rainier Beer, a local ale, and stuck with it for his drinking binge. Wildlife agents chased the bear away, but it returned the next day, said Broxson. They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation. — Victor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

about Re: OT: Drinking bear: Na Zdorowie!

????? — "The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-) " – the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

Response:

yodeled: They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation. Probably relocated to Washington U. where he would fit right in! ;)

Did you mean WSU (WAZOO), selected by Playboy Magazine for several years in the seventies at the biggest party college in the USA? Pam S. who thinks the bear would be selected as the new dean of students and start earning his bear bear money.

Response:

about Re: OT: Drinking bear: Na Zdorowie! ?????

Slavic equivalent of Salud! Cheers! Prosit! Skoal! Slainte! ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

Response:

things to say about Re: OT: Drinking bear: Na Zdorowie! ????? Slavic equivalent of Salud! Cheers! Prosit! Skoal! Slainte! ;)

Thanks. :-) — "The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-) " – the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About 6 years ago, Dennis and I were camping a little ways south of San Francisco.  We were in a heavily forested camp site.  We’d roasted our wieners in the campfire and consumed a large quantity of cheap red wine from a box, which was on the picnic table.  It was getting late out and it was pitch black outside.  The fire was dying down.  Suddenly, we heard sniffling right behind us!  The hair on the back of our necks stood up.  It was eerie. Dennis reached for the flashlight but the battery was dead.  There was rustling on the picnic table and heavy breathing.  It was so scary! Stumbling around in the dark, I tried to find the car so I could turn on the lights.  Dennis grabbed the axe and swiped it along the picnic table. More sniffling and rustling from the bushes.  I finally made it to the car and turned on the lights. There’s Dennis, waving the axe, surrounded on 3 sides by about 8 raccoons. They had already eaten the rest of our wieners and marshmallows.  There was a wooden box with a latch where the rest of our food was.  One raccoon pulled out the stick in the latch (we didn’t have a lock) and opened the box.  They all came and ate our food, while Dennis was waving the axe at them.  They weren’t at all afraid, only backing off about 1 foot from the axe and then advancing again.  When all the food was gone, they tore apart our box of wine, poked a hole in the bag and drank all the wine.  Then they all took off.  Dennis and I were left with no breakfast and no more wine. Bastard raccoons! Revenge (although I saw it with a rather nice hand-raised raccoon) is giving one a sugar cube, and watching him wash it–then wonder where it went.

LOL, thats so funny to imagine! I think racoons are just adorable, I"d love a tame one. Yowie — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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Revenge (although I saw it with a rather nice hand-raised raccoon) is giving one a sugar cube, and watching him wash it–then wonder where it went. LOL, thats so funny to imagine! I think racoons are just adorable, I"d love a tame one. Yowie

The tame one I knew was most charming.  Not a litter box for Bug; he was toilet trained. Unfortunately, at one fairly drunken party at his human’s home, we heard an outraged hiss, a splash, and then saw a screaming male guest, trousers around ankles, desperately running from the bathroom, wet and indignant raccoon in pursuit. Apparently, the gentleman in question had neglected to turn on the light.

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Unfortunately, at one fairly drunken party at his human’s home, we heard an outraged hiss, a splash, and then saw a screaming male guest, trousers around ankles, desperately running from the bathroom, wet and indignant raccoon in pursuit.

LOL!!!! That’s too funny! :) — Victor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Revenge (although I saw it with a rather nice hand-raised raccoon) is giving one a sugar cube, and watching him wash it–then wonder where it went. LOL, thats so funny to imagine! I think racoons are just adorable, I"d love a tame one. Yowie The tame one I knew was most charming.  Not a litter box for Bug; he was toilet trained. Unfortunately, at one fairly drunken party at his human’s home, we heard an outraged hiss, a splash, and then saw a screaming male guest, trousers around ankles, desperately running from the bathroom, wet and indignant raccoon in pursuit. Apparently, the gentleman in question had neglected to turn on the light.

Not much to say about that besides: "Whoa." ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

Response:

What a great story! I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thanks. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About 6 years ago, Dennis and I were camping a little ways south of San Francisco.  We were in a heavily forested camp site.  <snip

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In Slovenia we say "Na zdravje!", so I guess that is Polish for "Cheers!". Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – about Re: OT: Drinking bear: Na Zdorowie! ????? — "The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-) " – the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

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Oh those dastardly ‘coons!! Reminds me of when Pam and family camped here overnight on their trip. It was getting dark as we were eating, and we were surrounded buy the little four footed bandits. As we were sitting at the picnic table one crawled through the window to check for anything edible in my truck.

I think I inadvertently punished that raccoon enough.  I kept hearing noises outside the tent and shined a flashlight out the screen window each time I heard them.  Each time I caught a ‘coon in the light.  I was cursed out in coonish for hours that night. Pam S. remembering the raccoon sitting behind the wheel of Steve’s truck

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yodeled: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground SEATTLE, Washington (Reuters) — A black bear was found passed out at a campground in Washington state recently after guzzling down three dozen cans of a local beer, a campground worker said on Wednesday. "We noticed a bear sleeping on the common lawn and wondered what was going on until we discovered that there were a lot of beer cans lying around," said Lisa Broxson, a worker at the Baker Lake Resort, 80 miles (129 km) northeast of Seattle. The hard-drinking bear, estimated to be about two years old, broke into campers’ coolers and, using his claws and teeth to open the cans, swilled down the suds. It turns out the bear was a bit of a beer sophisticate. He tried a mass-market Busch beer, but switched to Rainier Beer, a local ale, and stuck with it for his drinking binge. Wildlife agents chased the bear away, but it returned the next day, said Broxson. They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation.

Probably relocated to Washington U. where he would fit right in! ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   About 6 years ago, Dennis and I were camping a little ways south of San   Francisco. We were in a heavily forested camp site. We’d roasted our   wieners in the campfire and consumed a large quantity of cheap red wine from   a box, which was on the picnic table. It was getting late out and it was   pitch black outside. The fire was dying down. Suddenly, we heard sniffling   right behind us! The hair on the back of our necks stood up. It was eerie.   Dennis reached for the flashlight but the battery was dead. There was   rustling on the picnic table and heavy breathing. It was so scary! I don’t think we have bears in this part of California. I’ve certainly never heard of anyone running into one in the Bay Area, which it sounds like was where you were. (Were you in Portola Valley state park, by any chance? It’s a nice, very woodsy area in the Santa Cruz hills.)

Well, we didn’t really stop to think logically.  It was pitch black and there was heavy breathing only a foot or 2 from our backs.  It was the weirdest, scariest thing. It was a while ago and I’m trying to remember what we did.  We drove from Vancouver to SF, stayed there a few days, drove on to Santa Cruz and Monterrey and then went to the Sonoma Valley.  I’m thinking it must have been somewhere around Monterrey.  But I’m not sure.  That cheap red wine seems to have messed with my geographical memory ;-) It was an interesting trip, that’s for sure.  We had a book called "Let’s Party San Francisco" and saw some pretty weird things, including some sort of bondage nightclub where they kept asking me to volunteer! In the Sonoma valley, I got stung by a bee on my ring finger and my finger swelled up enormously.  I couldn’t get my wedding band off.  We were going home the next day and tried to go as fast as possible.  Went straight to the emergency room in Vancouver and they ended up having to saw my ring off! Strangely enough, I got stung a month later in the same finger.  This time I took the ring off immediately and kept it off for a whole week. Now, mountain lions are a possibility around here, especially in the hills. But they’ve been seen in suburban neighborhoods on quite a few occasions, too. After all, those areas used to be theirs! Raccoons, though, are everywhere. Your story is pretty funny, although at the time I’m sure it wasn’t. I love the image of Dennis swinging an axe like a wild man, while 8 unfazed raccoons go about their business eating your food. :)

It was funny actually.  At one point, Dennis was faced off with one raccoon. Every time Dennis lifted the axe, the raccoon would advance.  When Dennis lowered the axe, the raccoon would back off a bit.  This went on for a while while I was laughing my head off. — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

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Yogi’s drunker than the average bear! I hope Hanna and Barbera will accept my apologies for that, but you can’t let a cheesy line get wasted. Like bears get wasted. Oh, I’m shutting up. Na Zdorowie! Baha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground SEATTLE, Washington (Reuters) — A black bear was found passed out at a campground in Washington state recently after guzzling down three dozen cans of a local beer, a campground worker said on Wednesday. "We noticed a bear sleeping on the common lawn and wondered what was going on until we discovered that there were a lot of beer cans lying around," said Lisa Broxson, a worker at the Baker Lake Resort, 80 miles (129 km) northeast of Seattle. The hard-drinking bear, estimated to be about two years old, broke into campers’ coolers and, using his claws and teeth to open the cans, swilled down the suds. It turns out the bear was a bit of a beer sophisticate. He tried a mass-market Busch beer, but switched to Rainier Beer, a local ale, and stuck with it for his drinking binge. Wildlife agents chased the bear away, but it returned the next day, said Broxson. They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation. — Victor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground SEATTLE, Washington (Reuters) — A black bear was found passed out at a campground in Washington state recently after guzzling down three dozen cans of a local beer, a campground worker said on Wednesday. "We noticed a bear sleeping on the common lawn and wondered what was going on until we discovered that there were a lot of beer cans lying around," said Lisa Broxson, a worker at the Baker Lake Resort, 80 miles (129 km) northeast of Seattle. The hard-drinking bear, estimated to be about two years old, broke into campers’ coolers and, using his claws and teeth to open the cans, swilled down the suds. It turns out the bear was a bit of a beer sophisticate. He tried a mass-market Busch beer, but switched to Rainier Beer, a local ale, and stuck with it for his drinking binge. Wildlife agents chased the bear away, but it returned the next day, said Broxson. They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation. Probably relocated to Washington U. where he would fit right in! ;)

Beg to disagree! Saint Bonaventure, in the "Southern Tier" of Western New York, was voted one of the top party schools in America. And a Jesuit college to boot! Cheers, Baha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground SEATTLE, Washington (Reuters) — A black bear was found passed out at a campground in Washington state recently after guzzling down three dozen cans of a local beer, a campground worker said on Wednesday. "We noticed a bear sleeping on the common lawn and wondered what was going on until we discovered that there were a lot of beer cans lying around," said Lisa Broxson, a worker at the Baker Lake Resort, 80 miles (129 km) northeast of Seattle. The hard-drinking bear, estimated to be about two years old, broke into campers’ coolers and, using his claws and teeth to open the cans, swilled down the suds. It turns out the bear was a bit of a beer sophisticate. He tried a mass-market Busch beer, but switched to Rainier Beer, a local ale, and stuck with it for his drinking binge. Wildlife agents chased the bear away, but it returned the next day, said Broxson. They set a trap using as bait some doughnuts, honey and two cans of Rainier Beer. It worked, and the bear was captured for relocation. Probably relocated to Washington U. where he would fit right in! ;)

IU – one of the top rated party schools in the US, to the dismay of Bloomington residents. — The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)

Question:

I had posted before about a friend who hadn’t seen me in a year, and made no comment on my weight loss. Well, she came to stay at my house after her seminar, and the way we were eating was pretty obvious. She started asking me questions about it, prefaced with the usual "my personal trainer swears Atkins will kill you" etc. But she really seemed interested in it. Especially after she saw my husband! When I told her how much I had lost, and what my high weight was, she argued that I couldn’t have been THAT big. I guess as my friend she only saw the best of me, LOL! She’s also down about the weight she’s gained over the past year, and a little self-conscious about it. By the time she left, I had given her my copy of DANDR to read on the plane, and she was saying that she hoped her boyfriend (they live together, and he needs to lose about 50lbs too) would do it with her. But she doubts it. I also want to add that while she was here, I went to a water park for the first time in a decade! I swam, rode waterslides, and had a great time. Sure my legs were jiggly and blindingly white. But there were LOTS of people there twice my size, and I just didn’t care! I had a blast, I’ve been missing out on so much because of my weight, I’m thrilled! Thank you Dr. Atkins! Rest in Peace. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5′7" 265/178/140 & hubby- 6′ 310/195/180 http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

Response:

writes: I had posted before about a friend who hadn’t seen me in a year, and made no comment on my weight loss. Well, she came to stay at my house after her seminar, and the way we were eating was pretty obvious. She started asking me questions about it, prefaced with the usual "my personal trainer swears Atkins will kill you" etc.

Yeah, it will kill you, but you’ll feel so healthy in the months before.</sarcasm  Seriously, why is it that personal trainers are among the worst when it comes to misunderstanding low-carb?  But she really seemed interested in it. Especially after she saw my husband! When I told her how much I had lost, and what my high weight was, she argued that I couldn’t have been THAT big. I guess as my friend she only saw the best of me, LOL! She’s also down about the weight she’s gained over the past year, and a little self-conscious about it. By the time she left, I had given her my copy of DANDR to read on the plane, and she was saying that she hoped her boyfriend (they live together, and he needs to lose about 50lbs too) would do it with her. But she doubts it.

It does seem that there were a number of factors at work the first time, when she didn’t mention your weight loss.  I’m glad she’s interested in following Atkins herself now. I also want to add that while she was here, I went to a water park for the first time in a decade! I swam, rode waterslides, and had a great time. Sure my legs were jiggly and blindingly white. But there were LOTS of people there twice my size, and I just didn’t care! I had a blast, I’ve been missing out on so much because of my weight, I’m thrilled! Thank you Dr. Atkins! Rest in Peace.

I always enjoy reading about people doing something they wouldn’t have done when they were heavier.  So I’m glad you went to the water park and enjoyed yourself. Daria 166/under 145/under 145 sugar-free since 2/1/04 low-carb since 2/17/04

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 She started asking me questions about it, prefaced with the usual "my personal trainer swears Atkins will kill you" etc. Yeah, it will kill you, but you’ll feel so healthy in the months before.</sarcasm  Seriously, why is it that personal trainers are among the worst when it comes to misunderstanding low-carb?

To her credit, she seemed a little skeptical of her trainers advice. Especially after living with me for a few days and seeing what I eat. She made the observation herself that I didn’t seem to be eating anything unusual (ie. side of beef for breakfast, bucket of lard for snack, the usual "Atkins" food, LOL!) I just avoided things like burger buns and ate salad instead of fries, etc. She admitted that it seemed like a pretty healthy way of eating. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5′7" 265/178/140 & hubby- 6′ 310/195/180 http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

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 But there were LOTS of people there twice my size, and I just didn’t care! I had a blast, I’ve been missing out on so much because of my weight, I’m thrilled! Thank you Dr. Atkins! Rest in Peace. Ah, the benefits of healthy life… Don’t ever forget how bad it is to be very fat…

I won’t, I swear! This time last year I would have been fully dresses and parked at a table under an umbrella, depressed and waving to my kids as they had fun. Now I go have fun WITH them! I fully intend to enjoy life from now on, and never take up my role as a mere spectator again. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5′7" 265/178/140 & hubby- 6′ 310/195/180 http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I had posted before about a friend who hadn’t seen me in a year, and made no comment on my weight loss. Well, she came to stay at my house after her seminar, and the way we were eating was pretty obvious. She started asking me questions about it, prefaced with the usual "my personal trainer swears Atkins will kill you" etc. Yeah, it will kill you, but you’ll feel so healthy in the months before.</sarcasm  Seriously, why is it that personal trainers are among the worst when it comes to misunderstanding low-carb?

Personal trainers are qualifed by their declaring themselves qualified. "I’m a personal trainer… Look at the title on my business card." There are almost certainly less standards for "personal trainer" than for beautician or barber which typically calls for about 1000 hours (or more) of training and a state liscense. In reality, why would you expect them to know very much about the biochemistry  and physiology of the body?  Why? They know the names of all the major muscles. Isn’t that enough? Jim

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I did the same as you when we went camping about a month ago.  Went to a really cool water park, actually got in the water, AND rode the water slide! I noticed that there were people there who were bigger than I was and, although I felt bad for them, it made me feel good. I wasn’t embarrassed to wear my swimsuit at all! — Linda 296/210/160 LC since Oct. 13, 2003 http://home.att.net/~lewis_linda/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But there were LOTS of people there twice my size, and I just didn’t care! I had a blast, I’ve been missing out on so much because of my weight, I’m thrilled! Thank you Dr. Atkins! Rest in Peace. Ah, the benefits of healthy life… Don’t ever forget how bad it is to be very fat… I won’t, I swear! This time last year I would have been fully dresses and parked at a table under an umbrella, depressed and waving to my kids as they had fun. Now I go have fun WITH them! I fully intend to enjoy life from now on, and never take up my role as a mere spectator again. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5′7" 265/178/140 & hubby- 6′ 310/195/180 http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

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Question:

s00sie <smoreh…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Has anyone ever gone camping with a cpap and how did you do it?  We > are going on a 100 mile bike trip, camping at night and it just > occurred to us that we may have a problem.  any solutions??

Yep, you most certainly will, because you’ll need about a 50-pound battery to make it through the night. One possibility is to have someone drive to the location with said battery. :) — _Deirdre  web: http://deirdre.net    blog: http://deirdre.org/blog/ "Memes are a hoax! Pass it on!"

Response:

Has anyone ever gone camping with a cpap and how did you do it?  We are going on a 100 mile bike trip, camping at night and it just occurred to us that we may have a problem.  any solutions??

Response:

"s00sie" <smoreh…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >Has anyone ever gone camping with a cpap and how did you do it?  We are >going on a 100 mile bike trip, camping at night and it just occurred to us >that we may have a problem.  any solutions??

Bicycle or motorcycle? I’ve taken mine on my motorcycle, but stayed in motels along the way. Unless you park your tent right next to an electrical outlet, you’re gonna have to carry a whopping big battery pack. Even then you’re gonna have to pack an extension cord. Dick Evans

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Question:

I happened to be on Madeline Island the same day as you and saw your plane and login entry in the FBO.  (I also saw your spot at Oshkosh, but you were never there when I  went by)

Well, Jeff, you shoulda stopped by after the airshow every evening.  That was when the REAL airshow began, as we plopped ourselves down with a cold one (or two) to watch the arrivals and departures.  We woulda had a cold one ready for you! On the occasions where I am not PIC’ing that day, I enjoy a beer or 2 at "Tom’s Burned Down Cafe". It’s a place to get a taste of the island culture.

Yeah, we saw that place — quite interesting.   Although I gather from our tour bus guide that it’s not putting forth quite the "taste of island culture" that many islanders would wish for us to see! Maybe we’ll catch up with you some time — or stop down to see us? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

At 6 PM last Tuesday, Mary and I found ourselves with four unique attributes:     1. Both kids were away at camp — for a week (that’s 168 hours — but who’s counting?)     2. We didn’t have to work for the next 2.5 days.     3. The gas tanks were full.     4. The weather was good throughout the Midwest. We looked at each other, shouted "We’re outta here!," drove 200 yards to the airport — and aimed Atlas north…. By sunset we made it as far as Ashland, WI (KASX) that night, landing at their pretty little airport on the southern shore of Lake Superior.  We had intended to make it all the way to Madeline Island, just 18 miles farther north, but the thought of landing on that little strip — without hotel reservations, in the dark — didn’t thrill either of us.  When we noted that they didn’t sell fuel on the island, that cinched the deal for Ashland — and, boy, was THAT a great decision! As we shut down, with the last light of an absolutely gorgeous July day bathing Atlas in orange, a fellow strolled up to say hello.  Turned out he was the FBO manager, working late on his own plane, and asked us if we needed anything.  Well, we needed *everything*, since we had no hotel reservations, no rental car, and no knowledge of the area — so we simply asked him how we could get to town, and where he would recommend we stay. He just chuckled, and told us we could take the airport’s courtesy car overnight down to the Hotel Chequamegon — the nicest place in town, located right on the lake shore.  We thanked him profusely and headed into town, arriving at the hotel just as darkness settled. The Hotel Chequamegon is a huge structure, built in 1986 to resemble the original hundred-year old hotel that preceded it.  Had I not read that fact, I wouldn’t have guessed it, as all the rooms and structure look precisely like a very old hotel — right down to the authentic antique furniture, and the 18-foot ceilings. Our room was nice, and fairly reasonably priced at $82 per night.  (The bed was hard as a brick, and there wasn’t even a coffee-maker in the room, but I digress…)  The restaurant served a wonderful "Northland Chowder" that alone was worth the trip, and the bar had a special blend of Leinenkugel that was brewed especially for the hotel.  Very nice, indeed. The next day dawned fresh and clear, so before breakfast we explored the waterfront, paying special attention to the abandoned taconite loading dock. This gigantic structure is over 100 feet tall,  several blocks long, and juts out into the lake like a dry-docked aircraft carrier.  They used to run trains right out on top of this pier, drop car-loads of taconite (iron ore) into the giant chutes, and then pour the ore directly into ore carriers docked right below the chutes.  They could dump an entire train-load in minutes, quickly filling the ships that would then hustle the ore to the steel mills in Gary and Detroit. At one time the docks were working night and day, and — judging by the trappings of wealth that are visible to this day — the community obviously prospered from the shipping industry.  According to locals, however, the last ship left that dock in 1965, and the entire structure has been slowly rusting away ever since.  It’s an immense structure, too big to ever be demolished yet no longer safe, and it’s sad to think that this kind of infrastructure is slowly decaying all over the country… After breakfast we drove back to the FBO, and had some time to better appreciate the wonderful log cabin that the city had built for them to use. It’s a real 2-story log cabin, with gigantic whole logs for beams, and is rustic and well done.  But they don’t scrimp on niceties, as they have computerized weather and a great pilot’s lounge, too.  In fact, Ashland’s terminal facility easily puts it in the top ten nicest FBOs Mary and I have visited at an airport their size. Soon we departed, having donated $20 to the "courtesy car fund" (this airport is one of the few I’ve seen that actually has envelopes pre-printed, with a formalized procedure for "suggested donation" amounts printed on them.), and were winging our way 18 miles out to Madeline Island — a pretty spit of land in the lake, and the largest of the Apostle Islands. We circumnavigated the island once, in a clockwise fashion so Mary could take pictures.  It’s a beautiful island at this time of year, heavily forested, deep green, and surrounded by calm, blue waters.  It didn’t take much imagination, however, to picture this island in winter — one of the coldest spots on earth — totally encrusted in ice to the horizon. (Islanders actually use an "ice road" to the mainland for several months during the winter… Brrrr!)   Even at this time of year the water was in the upper 40s, and we knew that ditching would mean almost certain death — even in July. After landing at their very nice — but unstaffed — airport, we wandered around a bit, trying to figure out how to get into town.  (With more prep time we could have brought our bikes, but, alas, we did not.)  Eventually we called the Chamber of Commerce (the number was on the wall), and they recommended that we just start walking toward town, and someone would soon pick us up.   They told Mary that "everyone picks up people walking in from the airport"… Well, not that day.  It was a pleasant enough walk of maybe 1.5 miles, and we were luckily in the shade, even at high noon (the trees come right up to the road) — but none of the dozen or more cars ever stopped to see if we needed a ride.  (In fairness, it’s not like we had our thumbs out.)  So, we just set a good "Oshkosh pace" and headed into town. LaPointe, the only city on Madeline Island (actually, the only city in the Apostle Islands), has a small downtown, but it’s bustling at this time of year.   We chose to eat lunch at a waterfront cafe with a great view of the ferry docks.  The ferries run every 30 minutes at this time of year, and run from "break up" in the spring to "freeze up" in the late fall, early winter. (After that there is a period where neither ferries can run nor the ice road is safe — so they run "ice boats" to the mainland — essentially air boats, just like you’d see in the Everglades.   Double brrr!) Prices on the island were amazingly reasonable, considering that everything had to be brought over by ship or by air, and considering that the businesses are only open for a few months each year.   A Coke was just 75 cents, and lunch — a wonderful Lake Superior broiled whitefish sandwich with fries — was just $6.00.   Having mentally prepared myself for "Mackinac Island prices" (double what everything costs at home), this was a pleasant surprise. Wandering around downtown a bit, we were somewhat surprised at the lack of "tourist trap" stores.   We only found two T-shirt stores, and — GASP! — we never found a single store selling any of those stupid (and ubiquitous) lighthouses that have become so popular throughout the Midwest.  (Hell, you can buy them here in Iowa, where the nearest lighthouse is 400 miles away…) We found the authenticity of the place to be really refreshing.   Obviously tourism, while important, isn’t the only reason these people are here. The ferry company also runs a tour bus, which, in our car-less state, sounded like just the thing.   Tickets were just $11 apiece, and the tour lasted several hours.  Our tour-guide was a full-time resident (there are only 250 of them) who had lived on "The Rock" (as she called it) for 25 years, raising a family.  She was also an EMT and a history teacher, and had done extensive research on the history of the island — so we were truly blessed with an outstanding tour of the island! (One juicy tid-bit:  The Ojibwa Indian tribe still regards the island as somewhat "taboo," because their ancestors over-populated the island to the point where they had to resort to cannibalism to survive.  At one point there were over 20,000 Ojibwas on that little island!   Interestingly, the tribe left right just a few years before the French "discovered" the island — the Indians were never driven out, as happened in so many other places.) The tour also includes chances to hike along the Lake Superior shoreline — a truly worthwhile experience.  The water is absolutely clear and clean (our tour guide and her family have no compunctions about drinking it straight out of the lake), and the scenery is stunning.  To see the Big Lake — the largest in the world (by surface area) and containing over 10% of the world’s fresh water — up close and personal is worth the trip alone. (Although they DO have a bear hunting season on Madeline Island, and we were warned semi-seriously to watch out for them…) Our tour guide kindly agreed to drop us off at the airport near the end of the tour, so we bade farewell to our fellow tour-mates, and were soon winging our way west, toward Superior, WI, located along the southern edge of Lake Superior adjoining Duluth, MN. As Mary flew along I gazed out at the lake in puzzlement, trying to figure out what the weird white swirly stuff was in the water.  At first I thought it was a glare on my window, but Mary pointed out that it was in fact the white puffy clouds above us, being perfectly reflected in the mirror-like calm waters!    There probably aren’t three days in any given year where Lake Superior (aka: The lake made famous by the "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald") is as smooth as a kiddy pool — but we were there to see it! Approaching Superior we were surprised to see the hills — almost mountains — behind Duluth, rising up from the water’s edge.   I had never been to Duluth, and had no idea that the terrains was so quasi-mountainous! The whole effect was quite beautiful, and this lovely approach was only slightly marred by trying to figure out the almost intersecting landing patterns of Sky Harbor (Superior’s "Meigs Field", out in the bay) and Bong Airport.  Mary was landing on

… read more »

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Great trip report, Jay. I happened to be on Madeline Island the same day as you and saw your plane and login entry in the FBO.  (I also saw your spot at Oshkosh, but you were never there when I  went by) Madeline Island is one of my favorite day trip places with bicycles.(I am from the Minneapolis area) And it is a nice flying/camping destination. There are 2 nice campgrounds a reasonable bike ride from the airport.  The FBO used to have "rental" bicycles, but I’m not sure if they do anymore. On the occasions where I am not PIC’ing that day, I enjoy a beer or 2 at "Tom’s Burned Down Cafe". It’s a place to get a taste of the island culture. Sky Harbor airport is actually on the Duluth side of the bay from Bong. It is a nice place to fly into for a day at Park Point beach, which is adjacent to the airport. The FBO there is another one which I have found to be exceptionally friendly. Last time I flew there (some years ago now) they offered us their early 70’s era Mercedes for a courtesy car and would not accept a donation. Jeff Barber Cardinal FG N34808

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Is the restaurant on Bong Field (nautical themed, with a few nods to aviation) closed now?

The restaurant is open, although we sadly didn’t get a chance to eat there.  Is Barker Island another length of the Park Point strip that shelters the harbor from the lake?

Barker Island is that little spit of land between Sky Harbor and the actual lake shore.  It’s full of tourist stuff, from a maritime museum, to a marina, to hotels, to the new Bong Museum See a map here at http://visitdouglascounty.com/maps-page-superior.htm . It’s hard to see, cuz when you click on it to enlarge the map, it neatly splits Barker Island in half! If you ever get a hankering to go even further north, Ely with its wolf museum is a wonderful destination. Feels like you’re at the top of the world, and the sectional will warn you of the areas where the concentration of iron ore in the ground tweaks your compass…

Yeah, the iron ore does do strange things to a compass.  Of course, navigating from Ashland to Superior is as easy as pie — just follow the lake shore west!  Who needs a compass? :-) — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

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If you ever get a hankering to go even further north, Ely with its wolf museum is a wonderful destination. Feels like you’re at the top of the world, and the sectional will warn you of the areas where the concentration of iron ore in the ground tweaks your compass…

The flight from Duluth to Ely messes with the GPS as well. I’ve flown it three times and each time I lost position part way there. The last time I was getting erroneous data…the moving map had me heading east over Lake Superior at 600 knots! (I fly a Cherokee 140). I’ve learned to have my sectional open on my lap for that leg, as you can’t trust the compass or the GPS. Ely has a VOR on field, but I like redundancy in navigation. Ely is a cool place, sort of the last outpost before the civilized world turns into wilderness. The economy relys on wilderness tourism, so it has more than adequate amenities, but is still unspoiled. Our first trip there was a round-robin of Oshkosh to Mackinac Island to Ely and back to Kansas. Our last fuel stop before Ely was Ashland. Thanks for the memories, Jay and Stella. JP Krievins

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Question:

Sedona, AZ has some great trails. Jaw dropping red rocks, just head up to Brins Mesa from the downtown area. Go early in the morning or late in the day for best colors. San Diego, CA has some great running trails. –mikeb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excellent, thanks for the link, I’ll have a good look at that tonight. Is the Boulder area expensive? From all I’ve read and heard it certainly sounds like a great area. What about Flagstaff or Eugene? Flagstaff is definitely very beautiful. Plus, it’s at an elevation. I wouldn’t think it’s as expensive as Boulder. Also check: www.runtheplanet.com jobs

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A suggestion is to tour the western US National Parks. Good places to run there, inexpensive camping, and great sightseeing.

This is a great idea. To the OP, if you plan to do that, check out www.nps.gov for more info. You might also want to get their National Parks pass. I think it’s about $50 and you have unlimited access to any national park in the US for a year. Well worth it considering each park charges an entrance fee of about $15-20. jobs

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boulder is expensive.  Flagstaff is also a nice area.  Eugene is a place I have not spent much time. there is a website associated with Monster.com that allows you to compare costs of living in various places.  It took me some searching one time to find it, but it was spot on for the area I live in. Is the Boulder area expensive? From all I’ve read and heard it certainly sounds like a great area. What about Flagstaff or Eugene? Boulder, CO Colorado Springs, CO No grass oval in the latter but plenty of trails. I have three weeks leave coming up in September/October and I’m looking  at places to go for a couple of weeks good training. I’m in Australia but  I’m looking at heading as far as my budget will allow me. Anyone have some recommendations of places around the world where they have done some  great running. Trails and a nice grass oval are a must, rubber track a bonus.

According to this – http://www.bestplaces.net/city/ccompare.aspx – Flagstaff is more comfortable and has a lower cost of living. If your soul and tastebuds are adventurous – Seoul, Korea – hills everywhere (think San Francisco), beach everywhere, have tracks at most of the universities, also have trails around the campuses as well, cheap places to eat and stay… It’s lovely to run in the morning in Korea when it is still cool and dewy. I would think Japan would be another great choice.  Many times in Korea, I would see the only other people I would see out running would be Japanese businessmen.  My guess is that Japan would have a wide network of trails and the occassional track.  But I’ve never really been so that’s all just conjecture. Since we are on the Colorado kick, my number one choice would have to be Telluride.  You can camp in the city park for free for a week at a time (you can also do this in many midwestern towns as long as you stop in at the sheriff’s place first).  Then spend two or three days in the hostels or motels…then another week in the park. They have an extensive trail network that all takes off from the city center (Weaverville, CA has this as well).  Nice area especially in the off season (non-skiing/non-bluegrass festival).  Expensive but reasonable if you eat out occassionally and stay for free. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Boulder is expensive.  Flagstaff is also a nice area.  Eugene is a place I have not spent much time. there is a website associated with Monster.com that allows you to compare costs of living in various places.  It took me some searching one time to find it, but it was spot on for the area I live in.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the Boulder area expensive? From all I’ve read and heard it certainly sounds like a great area. What about Flagstaff or Eugene? Boulder, CO Colorado Springs, CO No grass oval in the latter but plenty of trails. I have three weeks leave coming up in September/October and I’m looking at places to go for a couple of weeks good training. I’m in Australia but I’m looking at heading as far as my budget will allow me. Anyone have some recommendations of places around the world where they have done some great running. Trails and a nice grass oval are a must, rubber track a bonus.

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Is the Boulder area expensive? From all I’ve read and heard it certainly sounds like a great area. What about Flagstaff or Eugene?

Lots of cheap sublets when the students leave in the summer. But you compete with the students for lodging by late August. A suggestion is to tour the western US National Parks. Good places to run there, inexpensive camping, and great sightseeing. The crowds leave by mid-Sept. It can be nice weather until winter in late October. The issue is having a car. Only a fraction of the parks are easily accessible by cheap public transportation.

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Is the Boulder area expensive? From all I’ve read and heard it certainly sounds like a great area. What about Flagstaff or Eugene?

Flagstaff is definitely very beautiful. Plus, it’s at an elevation. I wouldn’t think it’s as expensive as Boulder. Also check: www.runtheplanet.com jobs

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Excellent, thanks for the link, I’ll have a good look at that tonight. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the Boulder area expensive? From all I’ve read and heard it certainly sounds like a great area. What about Flagstaff or Eugene? Flagstaff is definitely very beautiful. Plus, it’s at an elevation. I wouldn’t think it’s as expensive as Boulder. Also check: www.runtheplanet.com jobs

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Is the Boulder area expensive? From all I’ve read and heard it certainly sounds like a great area. What about Flagstaff or Eugene? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boulder, CO Colorado Springs, CO No grass oval in the latter but plenty of trails. I have three weeks leave coming up in September/October and I’m looking at places to go for a couple of weeks good training. I’m in Australia but I’m looking at heading as far as my budget will allow me. Anyone have some recommendations of places around the world where they have done some great running. Trails and a nice grass oval are a must, rubber track a bonus.

Response:

I have three weeks leave coming up in September/October and I’m looking at places to go for a couple of weeks good training. I’m in Australia but I’m looking at heading as far as my budget will allow me. Anyone have some recommendations of places around the world where they have done some great running. Trails and a nice grass oval are a must, rubber track a bonus.

Response:

Boulder, CO Colorado Springs, CO No grass oval in the latter but plenty of trails.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have three weeks leave coming up in September/October and I’m looking at places to go for a couple of weeks good training. I’m in Australia but I’m looking at heading as far as my budget will allow me. Anyone have some recommendations of places around the world where they have done some great running. Trails and a nice grass oval are a must, rubber track a bonus.

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Question:

i would like to talk more about this  need more information on this subjet .

Ok i have an idea. Make a note of your temperature in the climate you plan to set up in and tell us more. My idea bags are these. Winter  -20 degree sleeping bag Spring/Fall 5 degree sleeping bag Summer a fleece sleeping bag something thin and comfortable What type of bag depends on your finances and carry weight requirements. I would keep those bags in the car in case your car breaks down or something you have warmth/ comfort no matter what the temperature. Ground pads is something i never had any experience with except those air beds Imagine a queen size air bed and you have the extent of my camping experience it was bad for me cause i never had any experience camping except trailers and such. so a good gust of wind came along and rattled the tent polls spooking me awake so i darted in to the trailer and stayed the night there. I was so use to hearing Indiana weather when the wind howls like it did in in the park around lincoln NE you take shelter in a basement and hope like hell the tornado doesn’t come visit you. but out in Lincoln NE it must roar a lot louder before you take shelter. So the Full test of comfort was about 3 to 4 nights out in the flatlands in the middle of summer. One of the first things i noticed was   when it is cool at nights with the wind blowing some the air bed will rob heat from under you so make sure you know the weather before you set up an airbed. And if you do set one up in cool climates i suggest having a blanket under you such as the spring/fall bag then have the heavy bag over you so you don’t lose heat. this is not including leaks and such seems to me every airbed i had leaks like crazy. I hope someone will tell of their experiences with closed cell foam pads seems to me like i need the ones that are wider and thicker. I hope that helps you decide on an airbed. TSS

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i would like to talk more about this  need more information on this subjet .

I’ve spent a fair amount of time with all three. Ask away.  I’ll do my best. Strider

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Newsgroups: alt.survival i would like to talk more about this  need more information on this subjet .

What is your level of experience? Any questions? caveat lector Halcitron             misc.survivalism      alt.survival "Failing to prepare…. Is preparing to fail." NRA Member since 2002 The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand. Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.

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i would like to talk more about this  need more information on this subjet .

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Question:

Anothr question… Why is "Mackinac" pronounced "Mackinaw"? Janet, the road princess, and I spent the afternoon together on Wednesday and she corrected my pronounciation. I had always said Mackinaw because that’s the way I’d always heard it but when I saw it in print I flipped to the Mackinac pronounciation. Hunter

Hi Hunter, The original name was Michilimackinac,  (pronounced:  mish ele mack i naw) The French built a fort there and the name came from that. (leave it to the French to come up with a name like that). By the way, pasties is pronounced, past ees(short a) not like the device some strippers use. <G Max

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Make sure you have some pasties.   I think I kept some from the old days…….

Careful. Will’s heart can’t take that, and you know it. GB in NC

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Anothr question… Why is "Mackinac" pronounced "Mackinaw"? Janet, the road princess, and I spent the afternoon together on Wednesday and she corrected my pronounciation. I had always said Mackinaw because that’s the way I’d always heard it but when I saw it in print I flipped to the Mackinac pronounciation. It’s sort of like the place in California that I heard about called La Hoya and the other place I would read about called La Jolla. Hunter

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Anothr question… Why is "Mackinac" pronounced "Mackinaw"?

No idea. The spelling is both ways. The bridge, the city, and the island mix and match between Mackinaw and Mackinac. Janet, the road princess, and I spent the afternoon together on Wednesday and she corrected my pronounciation.

Does anyone who hasn’t been there prounounce any strange names correctly? I had always said Mackinaw because that’s the way I’d always heard it but when I saw it in print I flipped to the Mackinac pronounciation. It’s sort of like the place in California that I heard about called La Hoya and the other place I would read about called La Jolla. Hunter

Lon

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Fowlerville fairgrounds June 17. Any hook ups? I’m looking forward to it. When is it over? What do I have to do before I get there?

Full hookups for the first 60 RVs. We’ll be there on Monday the 14th and stay unil the following Monday. Most people will arrive on Thursday. It’s officially the 17-20th You don’t have to do anything but show up. $15/night and we are welcome both early and late. Lon

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Fill your water tanks. Most Michigan State Parks do not have water hookups. <gack

<G Aw, c’mon. It’s painless… — Jon JP in OH "There’s no place like 127.0.0.1"

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Fill your water tanks. Most Michigan State Parks do not have water hookups. <gack

Be strong, Hunter. It had to happen sooner or later. <g You can handle it. GB in NC

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Hi Hunter, The original name was Michilimackinac,  (pronounced:  mish ele mack i naw) The

French built a fort there and the name came from that. (leave it to the French to come up with a name like that). Ah, okay thank you Max.  That ’splains it. By the way, pasties is pronounced, past ees(short a) not like the device some strippers use. <G Max

I’m still a vegetarian, but thanks for the expertise. (c: Hunter

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Will I hit black flies? Maybe. How far north are you gonna be? South of Harrison I wouldn’t worry

about them. I’ll be above Harrison in Petoskey after Lansing. My friend says she hasn’t seen any up that far. mosquitoes? When is their season? Any time it ain’t snowing.

LOL. I’ve never heard of a case of it, but they do warn about being careful of

ticks. Hmmm.. last year I got the dogs vaccinated against Lymes because I was going to Connecticut…. just checked the map, seems like low risk… http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/riskmap.htm Don’t know, but that far north prepare for black flies if you are in the

woods. I don’t like woods…… I’ll camp in the open. Rent a bike or take a buggy ride. It’s 8 miles around the island and you don’t

want to miss the trip. Okay, thanks….. maybe the buggies allow dogs…. Fowlerville fairgrounds June 17.

 Any hook ups? I’m looking forward to it. When is it over? What do I have to do before I get there? Fill your water tanks. Most Michigan State Parks do not have water hookups.

<gack Hunter

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I’ve never heard of a case of it, but they do warn about being careful of tics.

Why? Do "they" have something against facial muscle spasms? <g GB in NC

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Will I hit black flies? mosquitoes? When is their season?  Do they have Lyme’s disease there? Hunter

Biiig mosquitoes in Michigan.  Get lots of deet repellent.  Another thing that will suprise you will be sundown.  It’ll be about 10pm that far north. Make sure you have some pasties.  They are a beef turnover (pie) brought   to Michigan by the Welsh miners.  Get a Upper’s audio tape so you’ll understand the natives…;-) GlennB

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Biiig mosquitoes in Michigan.  Get lots of deet repellent.  Another thing that will suprise you will be sundown.  It’ll be about 10pm that far

north. My first experience with that was in Bismarck, ND.  Couldn’t start 4th of July fireworks til 11:15pm when it was dark enough. Make sure you have some pasties.  

I think I kept some from the old days……. They are a beef turnover (pie) brought  to Michigan by the Welsh miners.  Get a Upper’s audio tape so you’ll understand the natives…;-)

Oh…. *that* kind of pasties……. <g I’m a vegetarian. Thanks for the info. Hunter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GlennB

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Hi Gang, I’m be in Michigan in June and July and have a few questions.   Will I hit black flies? mosquitoes? When is their season?  Do they have Lyme’s disease there?

Just yesterday I heard a news report on radio (KCBS SF Ca).  A research report on the ticks that carry Lyme disease gives the following constuctive advice: Do not sit on limbs or down wood.  It seems that the larval tick lives (in the bark?) of live and recently down wood. The researcher was surprised with this result:  he expected to find the worst exposure to be in leaf litter in forests, but it’s the tree bark where the problem is worst. All the other advice to wear sleeves & long pants, and to check for ticks, still holds…. John

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Hi Gang, I’m be in Michigan in June and July and have a few questions.   Will I hit black flies?

Maybe. How far north are you gonna be? South of Harrison I wouldn’t worry about them. mosquitoes? When is their season?

Any time it ain’t snowing.  Do they have Lyme’s disease there?

I’ve never heard of a case of it, but they do warn about being careful of tics. I see two campgrounds in Petosky, are both nice?  Is one better than the other?

Don’t know, but that far north prepare for black flies if you are in the woods. The little buggers respect Off, but don’t respect you. It looks like Mackinac Island is not a place to bring the Airstream <g

No motor vehicles at all. Do I bring the truck?  Do I just hop the ferry with the dogs and walk around the island all day?

Rent a bike or take a buggy ride. It’s 8 miles around the island and you don’t want to miss the trip. More as I think of it. Any suggestions are most welcome.

Fowlerville fairgrounds June 17. Fill your water tanks. Most Michigan State Parks do not have water hookups. Hunter

Lon

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Ask Lon, he’s a former Michigander! Mike

I figure he’ll answer. I’ve found two parks that might appeal to me. One is a public one, Magnus Park in Petoskey and Crooked River RV Park in Alanson. Hunter

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Hi Gang, I’m be in Michigan in June and July and have a few questions. Will I hit black flies? mosquitoes? When is their season?  Do they have Lyme’s disease there?

Yes,    Yes,    Yes.  But not excessively so.  Mosquitoes are bad in the evening.  You’ll be there when they’re in season. I see two campgrounds in Petosky, are both nice?  Is one better than the

other? Both just so-so.  The KOA is *much* nicer. It looks like Mackinac Island is not a place to bring the Airstream <g

Right-O.  No internal combustion powered vehicles on the island. Do I bring the truck?

No Way!! Do I just hop the ferry with the dogs and walk around the island all day?

They have horse drawn  "shuttles".  Sort of  a trolley like affair. You get a ticket, get on and off and on at your pleasure. You can rent a bicycle but I don’t know if your dog would care for that. More as I think of it. Any suggestions are most welcome.

If you get there soon enough in June you’ll be able to enjoy the Lilac Festival. Huge Lilac bushes; like trees. Be sure to sample Mooney’s Black Walnut ice cream. Hunter

We stayed at Mackinaw Mill Creek Camping.  Right on the shoreline of Lake Huron. Close to the bridge. Max

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Thanks Max, All good stuff. Hunter

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I worked on the Island one summer and fell in love.  Best part is a sunrise bike trip around the island.  Up the middle trails to the old cemetery…..Kinda spooky in the morning mist. Re-invigorating…….Bring a sweater…..There is always a good breeze. In order to really get the flavor, I suggest that you need to spend a night on the island. Many excellent bed and breakfasts.  The town really comes in it’s own after dark, when all the "fudgies" have gone home on the last ferry. It has a whole different atmosphere. Rent the movie "Somewhere in time" With Christopher Reeves. It was made on the island when I was there. Kinda Hokey, but worth it. You may be able to catch the boat races. Port Huron  to Mackinac and the second leg is the Mackinac to Chicago…..Great time over a few weekends. Earlier in spring is the Lilac festival.  Annual Lilac Festival June 11-20, 2004 http://www.mackinacisland.org/ Interactive map: http://www.mackinac.com/content/maps/index.html Ohh, and if you like horses, you’ll love the all horsepower concept.   Thank god for the good breezes. More below.

Hi Gang, I’m be in Michigan in June and July and have a few questions. Will I hit black flies?

- Maybe, depends where you go and whether or not there is a late hatch, sometime happens near the shore. Only in dah – UP is it a major concern. Stop and have a Pastie if your passing through. mosquitoes? – Yes. When is their season? – Pretty much all the time. Mich is mostly swamp in the middle. Do they have Lyme’s disease there? – YES Check yourself and the dogs regularly for ticks. Long sleeves and white socks with the trouser tucked in while in the bush. Deet repellent. I see two campgrounds in Petosky, are both nice?  Is one better than the

other? – Never been to either – sorry.    Scenery wise, the drive from Petoskey north along the shore all the way to Mackinac rivals anywhere for natural beauty.   Shhh, don’t tell anyone though. It looks like Mackinac Island is not a place to bring the Airstream <g

-  No. The horses couild likely tow it, but there is no camping allowed. Do I bring the truck?

- Park it.  Do I just hop the ferry with the dogs and walk around the island all day?

- Not sure about the dogs, call ahead. Sheplers is pretty popular. More as I think of it. Any suggestions are most welcome.

Early dinner resv. and a Carriage ride to the Stonecliffe lodge other side of the island and a walk out back to see lovers leap.   Great spot to catch the sunset, some wine, etc… ;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hunter

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Hi Gang, I’m be in Michigan in June and July and have a few questions.   Will I hit black flies? mosquitoes? When is their season?  Do they have Lyme’s disease there? I see two campgrounds in Petosky, are both nice?  Is one better than the other? It looks like Mackinac Island is not a place to bring the Airstream <g Do I bring the truck?  Do I just hop the ferry with the dogs and walk around the island all day? More as I think of it. Any suggestions are most welcome. Hunter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang, I’m be in Michigan in June and July and have a few questions. Will I hit black flies? mosquitoes? When is their season?  Do they have Lyme’s disease there? I see two campgrounds in Petosky, are both nice?  Is one better than the other? It looks like Mackinac Island is not a place to bring the Airstream <g Do I bring the truck?  Do I just hop the ferry with the dogs and walk around the island all day? More as I think of it. Any suggestions are most welcome. Hunter

Ask Lon, he’s a former Michigander! Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

If you want to fix this tank so you can use it while you’re getting satisfaction from CW, the task is fairly simple.  Assuming the hole is a small one caused by a sheet metal or drywall screw and that it is accessible, all you have to do is melt a small area around the hole and work the plastic back together. Could be. But in his original post, he said, "The tank is wedged into a glove-tight 5/8" plywood compartment and cannot easily be removed."

Thank you, GB for helping me with my reading.  May I call on you if I need other help, say, with unstopping a drain? As maybe the only one in this group to do so, I do my best to answer the actual question asked in this case, "We are beginning full-timers just starting our tour, and have already run into a major challenge. Has anyone had any luck repairing a perforated fresh water tank?"  That was the first paragraph, as my reading assistant, something I would have thought you would have noticed. He didn’t ask anyone to speculate on the accessability or difficulty.  It may be that the panel the screw was run through is easily removed.  I neither know nor care. He asked only whether anyone had experience fixing a punctured tank. I have and I offered him the benefit of my experience. There are other, less permanent methods of plugging the hole. Coating the threads of a stainless steel sheet metal screw with RTV or polyurethane caulk, then screwing it tightly into the hole.  Or screwing in a sheet metal screw and then heating it with a soldering iron until the plastic melts and bonds to the screw.  Or plugging it with a tubeless tire plug.  All will work; none are as permanent as doing it correctly the first time, particularly since most of the work will probably involve preparing the work site. One bit I forgot to add in my previous post.  You can practice this technique on a 5 gallon plastic bucket.  that plastic contains more filler and won’t get as thin as the plastic on the water tank but it is nonetheless very good practice.  I do plastic repair so seldom that I usually will freshen up my skills on a bucket before proceeding. I guess I can’t figure out the purpose of your post, GB.  To prove that you can nit-pick better than anyone else?  So desperate to post that you don’t really care about the content?  You added nothing to this conversation of a constructive nature.  So what WAS the purpose of your post? I really am curious why you and a few others do this kind of stuff.  It really distracts from the pleasure of interacting with other RVers.  Maybe it IS some sort of attention craving disorder. John — John De Armond http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ Cleveland, Occupied TN

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I can’t figure out the purpose of your post, GB.   To alert you to the fact that you gave an excellent and detailed description of a procedure that it should have been obvious he can’t do, because he already said he can’t get to the tank. That’s all. No big deal. Actually this is what he said (from his original post): "… So, we are thinking hard about trying to remove the tank and plug the holes, so we can get underway. Has anyone had any success with this, for what seems to be a polyethylene tank?" I think I addressed that question directly, did I not? John

Don’t mind "Mother B", John. Just keep trying to be helpful and let him do his "mothering" thing. Lon

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We are beginning full-timers just starting our tour, and have already run into a major challenge. Has anyone had any luck repairing a perforated fresh water tank?

I hope you paid with a credit card. For starters, your cc company can and will dispute their charges if you ask them top and you file a report. Non payment of the bill is not all that is at risk for camping world, the big threat is that they will no longer be able to process transactions through your credit card company. If you paid by chaeck and it was guaranteed with a cc, maybe you can pursue same route. If you paid by check, you can dispute the bill and put a stop payment or maybe reverse the charges. I f you paid by cash  you prolly gotta sue. MLM

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, We are beginning full-timers just starting our tour, and have already run into a major challenge. Has anyone had any luck repairing a perforated fresh water tank? If you want to fix this tank so you can use it while you’re getting satisfaction from CW, the task is fairly simple.  Assuming the hole is a small one caused by a sheet metal or drywall screw and that it is accessible, all you have to do is melt a small area around the hole and work the plastic back together.  It will weld into a perfectly solid mass.  In fact, that is probably what any repair shop will do. Find a small butane mini-torch.  Preferably one with a hot air attachment….

Excellent advice as usual. BUT BE CAREFUL!  It is very very easy for an inexperienced plastic welder to try to go too fast & burn the plastic. Go with agonizingly slow speed. Or first try a tire plug; you might be able to access the hole in the tank sufficently through the screw hole (or an enlargement thereof) that caused the problem in the first place.  If this fails go the weld route.

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Or first try a tire plug; you might be able to access the hole in the tank sufficently through the screw hole (or an enlargement thereof) that caused the problem in the first place.  If this fails go the weld route.

 I had a leak in my water tank a couple years ago and repaired it  with a hot glue gun. Hasn’t given me a problem.                                                                   Gil

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All, Thanks for the great help, and the laughs, too. The biggest thing that came out of your thread was the consumer power it represented. We took all your messages, strung them together, and emailed them to CW HQ. We had a serious response within 2 hrs. We think CW Manassas is probably the corporate bad boy, and is clearly having its attitude re-adjusted in a major way. Apologies are now as numerous as rain drops are here. One thing we hadn’t made clear in our post was that since it was so hard to pin CWM down, we had written a letter detailing our complaint and demand for resolution, and hand-delivered it to them when we found the damage. It was CWM’s ignoring the letter that made their hard-core resistance clear. We did visit an attorney, and he told us Reines was a tough case, more or less daring people to sue, ignoring demand letters. He also told us to involve our insurer, USAA, to get an independent witnessing of the evidence and damage, and that is in the works. Yes, this can be a war, and we are willing to fight it, but we are learning to roll with the punch too. Yep, it ain’t cancer. On the other hand….we are a little worried about microbial activity of another kind — mold. The Cameo has an insulated underbelly sealed with a black tarp across its entire area. No doubt some of the leakage is trapped in there. It looks like it’ll be a while before we get to the great SW, to dry things out well. Do we: 1. Have a real chance of a mildew problem, and what can we do about it? 2. Have a chance of being found to be "flood damaged" by USAA, have that put on our title, and suffer a major devaluation of our trailer as a result? Thanks again, Tom/Kathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are beginning full-timers just starting our tour, and have already run into a major challenge. Has anyone had any luck repairing a perforated fresh water tank? I hope you paid with a credit card. For starters, your cc company can and will dispute their charges if you ask them top and you file a report. Non payment of the bill is not all that is at risk for camping world, the big threat is that they will no longer be able to process transactions through your credit card company. If you paid by chaeck and it was guaranteed with a cc, maybe you can pursue same route. If you paid by check, you can dispute the bill and put a stop payment or maybe reverse the charges. I f you paid by cash  you prolly gotta sue. MLM

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All, Thanks for the great help, and the laughs, too. The biggest thing that came out of your thread was the consumer power it represented. We took all your messages, strung them together, and emailed them to CW HQ. We had a serious response within 2 hrs.

Brilliant! The newsgroup actually helped generate a response! That’s one tool I’m going to remember if I ever need to wield it. We did visit an attorney, and he told us Reines was a tough case, more or less daring people to sue, ignoring demand letters. He also told us to involve our insurer, USAA, to get an independent witnessing of the evidence and damage, and that is in the works.

With USAA you have the best there is for insurance. Be straight with them and they’ll help you out all they can; they’ve done so in the past for me. As an example, Dad had a flooding situation in his house a couple of weeks ago, burst pipe in the basement. Not only did USAA pay for the damages, they also helped him out where a cleanup crew is concerned. Long story short, they were trying to commit insurance fraud and Dad caught it. He notified USAA and that cleaning company is now on the national list for suspected fraud. Any claim they submit to any insurance company will be flagged for — Jon JP in OH "There’s no place like 127.0.0.1" scrutiny from now on.

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Hunter To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." — Theodore Roosevelt

More counter battery fire. LZ War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.      John Stuart Mill

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Unless they have changed their policy, CW has a lifetime warranty on any installation they do.  I think the problem may be that they are franchising RV dealers to be Camping Worlds.  Calling CW is the way to go.  If they won’t help, send a letter to the owner stating that you will have it repaired at their expense as well as all living expenses entailed.  I would CC the states attorney general and several RV magazines.  The CC’s are very attention getting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, We are beginning full-timers just starting our tour, and have already run into a major challenge. Has anyone had any luck repairing a perforated fresh water tank? On April 2, as our first stop, we had Camping World at Reines RV in Manassas, VA install a Xantrex Freedom 2500 inverter in our new Carriage Cameo 5th wheel. They blundered, running 2" screws through the front 5/8" bulkhead, puncturing the 60-gal tank. The front compartment, and the Xantrex, were under 2" of water when we found the damage. If you can access the area where the holes are, I would try epoxy, or a hot glue gun first.  If that fails, I’d try a screw with a rubber washer or even one of those collapsing through the wall bolts with a rubber washer backed by steel.  I would consider this a temporary fix. I guess I would just replace the Xantrex at the same dealer where purchased in case it has useable parts. Before I left I would file a claim in small claims court against the repair shop.  Take photos and try to get a statement from the shop’s manager in front of witnesses. LZ

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Unless they have changed their policy, CW has a lifetime warranty on any installation they do.  I think the problem may be that they are franchising RV dealers to be Camping Worlds.  Calling CW is the way to go.  If they won’t help, send a letter to the owner stating that you will have it repaired at their expense as well as all living expenses entailed.  I would CC the states attorney general and several RV magazines.  The CC’s are very attention getting.

That last part would be a very dumb thing to do.  CW corporate will likely bend over backwards to remedy this problem and the problem with the store manager.  Making a media event instantly makes it an adversarial situation. In that light I’d expect CW to do only what the letter of their agreement required.  He would surely lose.  At a minimum the peace that is lost when an adversarial relationship is established.  At worst, a "so sue me" attitude. Or losing the extras CW is likely to include to make him a happy camper. Calling in the media is, IMHO, the last-ditch thing to do when negotiations have failed.  Like many last ditch things, it usually doesn’t work but at that point it doesn’t hurt to try. John — John De Armond http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ Cleveland, Occupied TN

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I would CC the states attorney general and several RV magazines.  The CC’s are very attention getting. That last part would be a very dumb thing to do.  CW corporate will likely bend over backwards to remedy this problem and the problem with the store manager.  Making a media event instantly makes it an adversarial situation. In that light I’d expect CW to do only what the letter of their agreement required.  He would surely lose.  At a minimum the peace that is lost when an adversarial relationship is established.  At worst, a "so sue me" attitude. Or losing the extras CW is likely to include to make him a happy camper. Calling in the media is, IMHO, the last-ditch thing to do when negotiations have failed.  Like many last ditch things, it usually doesn’t work but at that point it doesn’t hurt to try.

I tend to agree. This battle — right now, anyway — is between him and CW. No point in bringing in outside reinforcements prematurely. — GB in NC

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If you want to fix this tank so you can use it while you’re getting satisfaction from CW, the task is fairly simple.  Assuming the hole is a small one caused by a sheet metal or drywall screw and that it is accessible, all you have to do is melt a small area around the hole and work the plastic back together. Could be. But in his original post, he said, "The tank is wedged into a glove-tight 5/8" plywood compartment and cannot easily be removed."

"Removed" is a lot different than "accessed". LZ

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Could be. But in his original post, he said, "The tank is wedged into a glove-tight 5/8" plywood compartment and cannot easily be removed." Thank you, GB for helping me with my reading.  May I call on you if I need other help, say, with unstopping a drain?

Sure. Whatever. I guess I can’t figure out the purpose of your post, GB.  

To alert you to the fact that you gave an excellent and detailed description of a procedure that it should have been obvious he can’t do, because he already said he can’t get to the tank. That’s all. No big deal. — GB in NC

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I guess I can’t figure out the purpose of your post, GB.   To alert you to the fact that you gave an excellent and detailed description of a procedure that it should have been obvious he can’t do, because he already said he can’t get to the tank. That’s all. No big deal.

Actually this is what he said (from his original post): "… So, we are thinking hard about trying to remove the tank and plug the holes, so we can get underway. Has anyone had any success with this, for what seems to be a polyethylene tank?" I think I addressed that question directly, did I not? John — John De Armond http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ Cleveland, Occupied TN

Response:

Hi All, We are beginning full-timers just starting our tour, and have already run into a major challenge. Has anyone had any luck repairing a perforated fresh water tank?

If you want to fix this tank so you can use it while you’re getting satisfaction from CW, the task is fairly simple.  Assuming the hole is a small one caused by a sheet metal or drywall screw and that it is accessible, all you have to do is melt a small area around the hole and work the plastic back together.  It will weld into a perfectly solid mass.  In fact, that is probably what any repair shop will do. Find a small butane mini-torch.  Preferably one with a hot air attachment. Walmart has one without the hot air attachment for about $25.  It comes with a soldering tip.  The procedure (assuming you don’t have a hot air tip) is to turn the flame down very low and gradually heat the plastic in about an inch diameter around the hole. Hold the torch back so that the flame does not impinge the plastic and singe it. Concentrate more heat in the center.  The plastic will turn clear and liquid, the hotter the thinner. Have some sort of rod (old screwdriver, for instance) handy.  When the clear puddle has some depth (but not enough to run), use the rod to poke the plastic over the hole from all sides.  Alternate pushing and smoothing with the heat.  Pucker up the plastic over the hole just a little. After the plastic has been built up over the hole, it is necessary to melt it in and smooth it.  Back the torch up some more so that the heating is relatively gentle.  Have a wet rag handy.  heat the plastic gently so that the melt penetrates almost to the other side. If it starts to run (assuming a vertical surface) push it back up with the wet rag.  This will freeze the plastic in place.  One has to develop somewhat of a touch.  Ultimately you want the location of the hole smooth, with little to no sign that it was there.  You may not be able to achieve perfection on a vertical surface but that doesn’t really matter other than for appearances.  When the plastic is like you want it, press the wet rag against it to freeze it in place. This is a quick procedure that takes less time than it did for me to type this.  If you don’t want to attempt it yourself, most any body shop will have a plastic welder.  Used primarily to fix broken plastic bumpers, this is a kit consisting of a hot air wand and filler sticks of the different types of thermoplastic plastics commonly used.  With the proper hot air wand the weld should take no more than 10 minutes. You should not view this as a "repair" that makes the tank inferior to a new one.  Plastic welding literally makes it the same as new.  That spot will be the same as it was before puncture.  In fact, the odds are that the water fittings are welded to the tank using a similar procedure.  I would NOT risk the damage to your rig involved in removing that tank to install a new one. The old tank will be perfectly fine after the hole is welded shut. On April 2, as our first stop, we had Camping World at Reines RV in Manassas, VA install a Xantrex Freedom 2500 inverter in our new Carriage Cameo 5th wheel. They blundered, running 2" screws through the front 5/8" bulkhead, puncturing the 60-gal tank. The front compartment, and the Xantrex, were under 2" of water when we found the damage.

I would certainly expect a new Xantrex.  But you might be able to get the old one to function until you get the new one by thoroughly drying it.  Suspend a hair dryer so that it blows in the vents.  Set it on high and let it run for 24 hours.  It will take that long to back out the coils.  If you’re lucky you can simply turn it back on at that point and have it work.  If not, nothing other than time lost. We are camped in Bull Run Park about 3 miles from Reines